AppletTalk.com Java discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Test-driven development          AppletTalk.com Forum Index -> Java Software Tools View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Tim Anderson Guest Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: Test-driven development I am interested in opinions on test-driven development, for an article I am writing. Do you use it (eg JUnit)? If so, what benefits have you seen? Are there any downsides, and if so what are they? Any comments, please post here or email me tim(at)itwriting.com. Many thanks, Tim Kent Beck slams troglodyte developers http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?postid=170 Back to top apka Guest Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Test-driven development Hi, I have used both JUnit and NUnit and fornd them very helpful... They are good for unit testing the modules and u can check that nothing has broken by the new changes introduced in your code . Infact, I would like to add this in good programming practices... this is reduces time and effort put in on discovering that there was some bug introduced by some minor change in a method. Back to top . Guest Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Test-driven development On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Tim Anderson wrote: Quote: I am interested in opinions on test-driven development, for an article I am writing. Do you use it (eg JUnit)? If so, what benefits have you seen? Are there any downsides, and if so what are they? The first thing you will need to do is define what test-driven development is. I have talked to many people and get different options on what TDD and other buzzwords mean. Just yesterday I interviewed someone who worked at a company that used extreme programming and TDD. When I probed him about it, he said that they did pair programming; two people, one a tester and one a programmer. The programmer would write the code and the tester would write JUnit code. You talk to the TDD people in the testing newsgroups and they will tell you this is not TDD. From what I have read most people are saying they are doing TDD, extreme programming, agile development, etc. but the experts would disagree. That said, we are not TDD but we use JUnit. Some of our older projects now have 47,000 JUnit test cases. We build nightly and tests are run as part of the build. It is great for spotting when someone forgets to check something in or a Windows user has mixed case (wouldn't affect Windows tools) filename. The nightly build will run on Windows and UNIX so we see the build break and someone is usually on it within a few hours. Developers can also schedule builds and have the entire suite of JUnit test cases run to make sure what they are doing is not breaking anything. I've worked at other companies that did not use automated unit testing and found many more defects were detected much later in the SDLC. Last company, projects NEVER came in on schedule. They were usually not even close. I would often see one group of developers change an interface or side-effect that dramatically affected other teams using their APIs. This would be something that a simple unit test should have caught but often was caught by the test team after a full build and release; often weeks after the change had been made. On the other hand, I have seen teams that have a full suite of unit tests but the highest rate of defects in a company of other teams. In other words, having automated unit tests does not guarantee you have GOOD automated unit tests. Until we did an analysis on defects over a number of projects everyone assumed the team with thousands of automated tests was the best team. Turns out that between 7% and 12% of defects were found by customers on most teams but the team with automated testing had consistantly over 20% of defects found by customers. The automated tests lulled them into a false sense of security. -- Send e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca Back to top Tim Anderson Guest Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Test-driven development ""."" <darrell (AT) does (DOT) want.spam.com> wrote Quote: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Tim Anderson wrote: The automated tests lulled them into a false sense of security. Interesting point. I suspected that this was a risk. Thanks, Tim Kent Beck slams troglodyte developers http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?postid=170 Back to top Tim Anderson Guest Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Test-driven development ""."" <darrell (AT) does (DOT) want.spam.com> wrote Quote: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Tim Anderson wrote: The automated tests lulled them into a false sense of security. Interesting point. I suspected that this was a risk. 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