AppletTalk.com Java discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Goto page 1, 2  Next          AppletTalk.com Forum Index -> JVM, native methods and hardware View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Timo Nentwig Guest Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:08 pm    Post subject: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Hi! Is it possible that the Linux implementarion of the j2sdk 1.4.2 VM is noticably slower than the Windows version? I wonder what the blackdown project should be good for. Are there faster 1.4+ VMs available for Linux? Timo Back to top dhek bhun kho Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? He Timo Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com>, Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:08:38 +0200: Quote: Hi! Is it possible that the Linux implementarion of the j2sdk 1.4.2 VM is noticeably slower than the Windows version? Is it? It doesn't seem like that for me. Working fine. I used both the blackdown and the sun vm, but jprofiler will not profile the blackdown vm, so I switched back to sun's vm. Quote: I wonder what the blackdown project should be good for. Are there faster 1.4+ VMs available for Linux? IBM's VM is known to be fast, and when I tested it out with tomcat it seemed faster, but there's no way to be sure but to test it yourself. Quote: Timo Greets Bhun. Back to top Timo Nentwig Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Joseph Millar wrote: Quote: It's possible, but what evidence do you have to support this? Well, eclipse is noticably slower on linux and the VM heavily utilizes the CPU. And since eclipse is written in java what should be the cause if not the VM (which heavily does utilize the CPU)? Back to top Joseph Millar Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:40:28 +0200, Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Joseph Millar wrote: It's possible, but what evidence do you have to support this? Well, eclipse is noticably slower on linux and the VM heavily utilizes the CPU. And since eclipse is written in java what should be the cause if not the VM (which heavily does utilize the CPU)? You are comparing apples and oranges. X is a very different architecture from say the win32 windowing stuff. While you may not like the way X works, it has capabilites that win32 doesn't have (remote display on any X server, etc.) And unless you run the same program on two identically configured systems, one running Linux and the other Win32, any direct comparison is not fair at all. Any other other comparision is purely subjective. --Joe Back to top Timo Nentwig Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Joseph Millar wrote: Quote: X is a very different architecture Yes. But X is able to scroll smoothly...We are talking about really simple and fudamental stuff. An 1GHz+GeForce2 machine is able to draw an UI. Back to top Juergen Kreileder Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> writes: Quote: Joseph Millar wrote: It's possible, but what evidence do you have to support this? Well, eclipse is noticably slower on linux and the VM heavily utilizes the CPU. And since eclipse is written in java what should be the cause if not the VM (which heavily does utilize the CPU)? That's no fair test: Eclipse uses SWT and SWT uses different implementations on Linux (GTK or Motif based) and Windows (using the Windows GUI). The performance of SWT mostly depends depends on the performance of the underlying toolkit and quality of the respective SWT code. For CPU-bound code you won't see much difference between Linux and Windows because HotSpot generates the same native code on both platforms. Juergen -- Juergen Kreileder, Blackdown Java-Linux Team http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/java2-status/ Back to top Joseph Millar Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:11:47 +0200, Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Joseph Millar wrote: X is a very different architecture Yes. But X is able to scroll smoothly...We are talking about really simple and fudamental stuff. An 1GHz+GeForce2 machine is able to draw an UI. My point is X is different and will have different performance characteristics than say Win32 or Mac UI's. Whether that is roughly the same, faster or slower is unknown to me. The only way to tell is perform some tests on identical hardware and see if there is a difference. I have no bias as to how those numbers might turn out. I experience with native X apps has been that they tend to be sluggish, but that could just be my misfortune in using apps with poorly designed UI's or on machines with less than stellar display capabilities. And what are you using for a display driver on Linux to power the GeForce2 hardware? I know I found a vast improvement in speed and screen artifacts when I upgraded to the latest nvidia reference driver for Linux. Not sure what was being used before, just that it's whatever is installed with Red Hat 9 when it finds nvidia hardware. --Joe Back to top Joseph Millar Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:47:45 -0700, "Jon A. Cruz" <jon (AT) joncruz (DOT) org> wrote: Quote: Additionally, Eclipse has both GTK+ versions and Motif versions. I have never used Eclipse on Linux. Maybe it's time. --Joe Back to top Daniel Dyer Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:28:46 GMT, Joseph Millar <baric (AT) deleteme (DOT) comcast.net> wrote: Quote: On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:08:38 +0200, Timo Nentwig wrote: Is it possible that the Linux implementarion of the j2sdk 1.4.2 VM is noticably slower than the Windows version? It's possible, but what evidence do you have to support this? I use Sun's 1.4.2 JVM on Linux and Win32. But I can't compare them directly because they are running on different systems with different CPU speeds, mobo's, and memory architecture. But I notice nothing obvious that seems much slower on Linux. My experience supports the assertion that the Linux VM is slower than the Windows one. I haven't run any comprehensive benchmarks to test all circumstances but starting up JBoss with one of our apps using Sun's 1.4.1 VMs is twice as fast on Windows 2000 as it is on Linux on the same machine. Switching to Blackdown on Linux gives a noticeable improvement but it still doesn't compare to the Windows performance. Dan. -- Daniel Dyer Empathy Software (http://www.empathysoftware.com) -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Back to top Tim Tyler Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> wrote: : Is it possible that the Linux implementarion of the j2sdk 1.4.2 VM is : noticably slower than the Windows version? It's slower here. I've never heard any reports of it being faster. Often X is blamed for most visible aspect of the slowdown. Maybe X was designed without bearing performance considerations in mind. I suspect this is part of the story - and that lack of investment in the Linux JVM is another. -- __________ Quote: im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email]tim (AT) tt1 (DOT) org[/email] Back to top Timo Nentwig Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Joseph Millar wrote: Quote: And what are you using for a display driver on Linux to power the GeForce2 hardware? I know I found a vast improvement in speed and screen artifacts when I upgraded to the latest nvidia reference driver for Linux. I just use the latest nvidia driver. Windows is times faster ( Back to top Frank Zimmer Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? Timo Nentwig wrote: Quote: Daniel Dyer wrote: starting up JBoss with one of our apps using Sun's 1.4.1 VMs is twice as fast on Windows 2000 Yes, I noticed that as well, JBoss takes hours to startup on linux (( What versions of java your are using ?? If you take the 1.4.2 you will see a big improvement on startup times especialy on Linux SUN has impoved the linux VM much Frank Back to top Joseph Millar Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:44:34 +0200, Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Joseph Millar wrote: And what are you using for a display driver on Linux to power the GeForce2 hardware? I know I found a vast improvement in speed and screen artifacts when I upgraded to the latest nvidia reference driver for Linux. I just use the latest nvidia driver. Windows is times faster ( Red Hat 9 with the latest nvidia driver on a GeForce3 64MB is working just fine for me, no sluggishness that I can see. And my Linux box is only running on a 1Ghz PIII , whereas my WinXP box is running a 2.5ghz P4 with a Geforce4 Ti4600. I see no real difference in GUI performance from my Java apps on Linux or Win32. I did no benchmarking or timed tests, but as I use them (admittedly small apps), they seem to perform as fast. No idea why you are having such a problem. --Joe Back to top George Neuner Guest Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:03:48 GMT, Joseph Millar <baric (AT) deleteme (DOT) comcast.net> wrote: Quote: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:11:47 +0200, Timo Nentwig <tcn (AT) spamgourmet (DOT) com> wrote: Joseph Millar wrote: X is a very different architecture Yes. But X is able to scroll smoothly...We are talking about really simple and fudamental stuff. An 1GHz+GeForce2 machine is able to draw an UI. My point is X is different and will have different performance characteristics than say Win32 or Mac UI's. Whether that is roughly the same, faster or slower is unknown to me. The only way to tell is perform some tests on identical hardware and see if there is a difference. I have no bias as to how those numbers might turn out. I experience with native X apps has been that they tend to be sluggish, but that could just be my misfortune in using apps with poorly designed UI's or on machines with less than stellar display capabilities. X graphics are slower in relative terms because the client-server design requires IPC and process switching to accomplish the drawing whereas Windoze and Mac graphics require only a kernel mode function call. Video hardware and driver functionality can make a big difference by offloading work from the X server ... but the same goes for GDI and QuickDraw. Given identical resources, X will always be slower. George Back to top Roedy Green Guest Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Sun's linux VM slower than windows edition? On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:58:48 -0400, George Neuner <gneuner2 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote or quoted : Quote: Video hardware and driver functionality can make a big difference by offloading work from the X server There are video cards that speak X? -- Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary. 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