 |
AppletTalk.com
Java discussions newsgroups
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@netb |
 |
|
Find attached a message which was *censored* within a public forum of
the NetBeans Project.
Content Summary of Censored Message:
"The NetBeans Open Source Lie" [NetBeans IDE is _not_ Open Source].
My message was an reply to this message:
JAXP & other licenses
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=872191&listName=nbusers
The full initial thread:
[EVALUATION] - E11 - Sun Microsystems Board of Directors
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=871387&listName=nbusers
-
nntp access:
news://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.ide.netbeans.user
-
The foundation for the censorship was _personally_ given by the Sun
Microsystems Employee and NetBeans Board Member Tim Boudreau.
He _personally_ set the public nbuser forum on 'moderation', without any
authority on doing so:
NbUsers is now on full moderation
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=872266&listName=nbusers
Most possibly, he censors my messages now personally.
I cannot evaluate this - the process is intransparent.
-
Possibly some members of the community have complained about the
moderation/censorship.
This complaints are most possibly censored too.
I cannot evaluate this - the process is intransparent.
-
Covering censorship with the tenor of moderation is the action of an
coward.
Once more Sun Microsystems employees show their lack of courage and
integrity.
This incident is a shame for the whole Java community.
-
-
-
Silence is Accepting.
Act Against Censorship on Java Forums!
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
In an tread which targets my person [subject contains my full name], a
netbeans community member has twisted publically some facts.
Congrats to Ilias Lazaridis: Mission Accomplished
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=872061&listName=nbusers
My reply-message tries to counter the false accusations against my person.
This message was *censored* by Tim Boudreau (Sun Microsystems).
-
[CENSORED_MESSAGE]
Dobson Paul L Contr OO-ALC/LGFBR wrote:
| Quote: | I'm getting a little discouraged. I subscribed to this list in hopes
of getting and providing useful information regarding the use of
NetBeans. All I have found is relentless back and forth bashing
between Ilias Lazaridis and the rest of the group. If you want Ilias
Lazaridis to go away, either ban him or ignore him. Stop feeding his
fire.
|
"ban him"
this would mean: censorship.
-
"ignore him"
"Stop feeding his fire"
nice suggestions.
But why do you give such an worse example?
You've opened a _new_ thread, with my name in its subject!
| Quote: | It seems to me Ilias Lazaridis has accomplished his purpose of
disrupting NetBeans.
|
"purpose of disrupting NetBeans"
=> false [My purpose is to evaluate NetBeans]
I do this whilst keeping the very simple rules of the NetBeans.org System.
| Quote: | He has managed to turn almost all messages on this mailing list into
ones about as valuable as what I find in my junk mail folder.
|
"almost all messages"
This is an exaggeration.
My messages create only a few off-topic messages (inlcuding yours).
| Quote: | I am on the verge of giving up the forum because I don't have time to
sort through the dozen or so junk messages to find real information
on NetBeans.
|
a) My threads contain real information on NetBeans.
b) You can setup a simple filter on my threads.
You've possibly noted, that I write only in my threads.
Additionally I write sometimes(!) in foreign threads which subject my
person [like this thread here].
| Quote: | I'm all for free speech. At the same time, it would be nice to once
again see this mailing list be a place to give and receive help
regarding NetBeans. Maybe we should preserve the intent on nbusers
and create a new list for people like Ilias Lazaridis called
nbbashers 
|
The first action would be to redirect your "Congrats"-thread here to
this group.
-
I've followed the rules of the netbeans system.
My threads are valid within nbusers.
| Quote: | This will give him a place to vent while preventing him from wasting
my time as well as the time of the rest of the group who may have
real work to accomplish using NetBeans.
|
You waste your time yourself.
In the same time you wrote this message, you could setup your
email-client to filter my threads.
| Quote: | Yes, I too got sucked into the negativity and further prorogated the
waste of time by sending this message. I'll check back at a future
date and hopefully, things in this forum will have changed.
|
It its *believable* that you cannot use mental methods to ignore
writings that you dislike.
But its *unbelievable* that you cannot use technical methods to do so.
I give you the best assistance, whilst writing mostly just in my threads.
The rest is up to you.
[/CENSORED_MESSAGE]
-
-
-
[CENSOR_MESSAGE]
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] mailing list.
I'm sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.
Subject:
Re: Congrats to Ilias Lazaridis: Mission Accomplished
From:
Ilias Lazaridis <ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Date:
Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:52:57 +0200
To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Return-Path:
<gcjinu-nbusers (AT) gmane (DOT) org>
Delivered-To:
moderator for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Received:
(qmail 16563 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 10:53:03 -0000
Received:
from asmx1.sfo.collab.net (64.125.133.81) by s001.sfo.collab.net with
SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 10:53:03 -0000
Received:
from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by
asmx1.sfo.collab.net (8.12.8/8.12. with ESMTP id iBBAr1s0032206 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:53:02 -0800
Received:
from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id
1Cd4s1-0004IX-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:53:01 +0100
Received:
from veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr ([62.103.241.110]) by main.gmane.org
with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:53:01 +0100
Received:
from ilias by veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr with local (Gmexim 0.1
(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec
2004 11:53:01 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
http://gmane.org/
Lines:
97
Message-ID:
<cpeji9$q8s$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
References:
<C37F3743CB37FD449714BDCA42EB5334076FB727 (AT) fskrsm44 (DOT) hill.afmc.ds.af.mil>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Complaints-To:
[email]usenet (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org[/email]
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host:
veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr
User-Agent:
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103)
X-Accept-Language:
en-us, en
In-Reply-To:
<C37F3743CB37FD449714BDCA42EB5334076FB727 (AT) fskrsm44 (DOT) hill.afmc.ds.af.mil>
Sender:
news <news (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
[/CENSOR_MESSAGE]
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
In an tread which targets my person [subject contains my full name], a
netbeans community member has written a message targeting my person
which contains several *ungentle* *implications*.
Re: I vote to ban (not kick) Ilias Lazaridis from the NB lists (all of them)
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=871952&listName=nbusers
My reply-message tries to counter those personal stuff - and
additionally to clarify several things.
This message was *censored* by Tim Boudreau (Sun Microsystems).
-
[CENSORED_MESSAGE]
Alan Stange wrote:
| Quote: | Wade Chandler wrote:
I vote to ban (not kick) Ilias Lazaridis from the NB lists (all of
them)I want a vote. All those in favor please write an email that
says you vote to remove him, those who are not in favor please
write an email that says you do not support removing him. Please
put it in your subject so everyone can see clearly the intent.
As a Sun customer and shareholder,
|
Your status [context Sun Microsystems] has no relevance within the
NetBeans Project.
| Quote: | I want to see Sun employees working hard making better products, not
dealing with every random brain fart posted to the list.
|
"random brain fart"
| Quote: | Yes, we all need to be polite and diplomatic, but I too think that
time has passed. Anyway, nothing is to stop Ilias from getting a
gmail address and posting from that, so I don't know how one can be
banned.
|
I post with my full personal name with a personal email from a personal
domain.
I would not change to another email.
But I would treat censorship as a personal attack against my persons.
| Quote: | The whole Ilias diversion is so familiar. I happen to have a Ph.D. in
theoretical physics.
|
bravo!
| Quote: | I can't tell you how many papers I would get in which the author
solved all of the remaining problems in physics employing some novel
"creative" insights. Insights apparently achieved through the
insufficient or excessive use of some pharmaceutical. It's a little
scary when someone would show up at your office door and basically
corner you...and excusing oneself to go to the bathroom didn't work.
|
Seeing your attitude, I'm sure that you would fail to detect some really
novel ideas within "theoretical physics", which someone [either clean,
stoned or untreated / insufficient treated] would present you.
The Willingness to See.
You don't get it with an "Ph. D. in theoretical Physics".
| Quote: | Ilias, I think you've gotten the response from Sun that you deserve.
|
Sun Microsystems has not yet gotten the response that it deserves.
| Quote: | So take the hint and move on.
|
I have no reason to leave.
My evaluation is not yet finished.
| Quote: | It's fairly apparent that your brilliant ideas haven't resonated with
anyone at Sun.
|
This is not exactly true.
| Quote: | Perhaps if you were an actual Sun customer or shareholder then you
might have some influence.
|
I see.
| Quote: | As it stands, it appears that you're just a complainer.
|
Of course I am.
And I have the right to complain.
Whilst keeping the very simple rules of the Public NetBeans System.
[/CENSORED_MESSAGE]
-
-
-
[CENSOR_MESSAGE]
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] mailing list.
I'm sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.
Subject:
Re: I vote to ban (not kick) Ilias Lazaridis from the NB lists (all of them)
From:
Ilias Lazaridis <ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Date:
Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:11:57 +0200
To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Return-Path:
<gcjinu-nbusers (AT) gmane (DOT) org>
Delivered-To:
moderator for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Received:
(qmail 25710 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 12:12:01 -0000
Received:
from asmx1.sfo.collab.net (64.125.133.81) by s001.sfo.collab.net with
SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 12:12:01 -0000
Received:
from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by
asmx1.sfo.collab.net (8.12.8/8.12. with ESMTP id iBBCC0s0024462 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 04:12:01 -0800
Received:
from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id
1Cd66R-0007PP-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:11:59 +0100
Received:
from veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr ([62.103.241.110]) by main.gmane.org
with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:11:59 +0100
Received:
from ilias by veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr with local (Gmexim 0.1
(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec
2004 13:11:59 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
http://gmane.org/
Lines:
88
Message-ID:
<cpeo6b$39g$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
References:
<41B701C2.9000103 (AT) redesetgrow (DOT) com> <41B7153C.80508 (AT) rentec (DOT) com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Complaints-To:
[email]usenet (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org[/email]
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host:
veri364-isdn-a076.otenet.gr
User-Agent:
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103)
X-Accept-Language:
en-us, en
In-Reply-To:
<41B7153C.80508 (AT) rentec (DOT) com>
Sender:
news <news (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
[/CENSOR_MESSAGE]
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
In this thread, Tim Boudreau (Sun Microsystems) announces the he "just
put [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] on *full* *moderation* [giving this way the
foundation for the *silent* *censorship*].
NbUsers is now on full moderation
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=872266&listName=nbusers
My reply-message *protests* against this action and request
clarifications about the underlying rules and processes.
I make some *assumptions*.
Additionally I ask Mr. Tim Boudreau to *apologize* and to *resign* from
his postition due to the *abuse* of power.
This message was *censored* by Tim Boudreau (Sun Microsystems).
-
[CENSORED_MESSAGE]
Tim Boudreau wrote:
| Quote: | Hi, all,
As a result of the recent noise level on the lists and numerous
requests from list members to manage it better, I just put
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] on full moderation.
|
As a current member and participant of this community, I like to protest
against this action.
The given rationales are not valid.
They cannot justify the censorship of the public NetBeans forum "nbusers".
Many users of this community have expressed clearly *agaist* any form of
censorship.
And even if not:
The NetBeans System does not define a process for applying moderation,
as its against the spirit of this liberal and open project.
-
Can you please clarify:
- what exactly gives you the authority to _personally_ take such a
critical decision and set the nbusers forum on moderation?
I have two versions:
a) You have abused the power of your position (Board Member) and your
influence due to your relation to the Project Sponsor (Sun Microsystems).
b) You have taken this step on request of the upper hierarchy at Sun
Microsystems.
What kind of a leader are you?
Do you actually *realize* what you have done?
*censorship* on a *public* open-source-project resource!
| Quote: | Regrettably this means that posts to the list may be delayed pending
approval. Hopefully it won't be necessary for long. Anyone who
would like to volunteer to be a responsible moderator of this list,
please volunteer.
|
I understand that you place any intrested party on the moderators list.
How do you ensure that the moderators can follow the moderation-rules?
Which are those moderation rules?
How can I verify that the moderators do not violate those moderations rules?
What can I do, if I detect that a moderator has violated a moderation rule?
You have cowardly finalized a critical discussion about "The NetBeans
Open Source Lie" with the method of censorship.
Have at least the courage and integrity to take *yourself* the
consequences of your unethical actions.
I strongly request you to:
* stop the censorship on the nbusers forum immediately.
* apologize publically for the *unjustified* censorship of *any* messages.
* resign from *any* position which gives you administrative access to
the NetBeans System Resources.
[/CENSORED_MESSAGE]
-
-
-
[CENSOR_MESSAGE]
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] mailing list.
I'm sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.
Subject:
Re: NbUsers is now on full moderation
From:
Ilias Lazaridis <ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Date:
Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:12:44 +0200
To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Return-Path:
<gcjinu-nbusers (AT) gmane (DOT) org>
Delivered-To:
moderator for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Received:
(qmail 28478 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 18:12:51 -0000
Received:
from asmx1.sfo.collab.net (64.125.133.81) by s001.sfo.collab.net with
SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 18:12:51 -0000
Received:
from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by
asmx1.sfo.collab.net (8.12.8/8.12. with ESMTP id iBBICls0016370 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:12:50 -0800
Received:
from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id
1CdBja-0003Cw-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:12:46 +0100
Received:
from veri364-isdn-a027.otenet.gr ([212.205.230.27]) by main.gmane.org
with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:12:46 +0100
Received:
from ilias by veri364-isdn-a027.otenet.gr with local (Gmexim 0.1
(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Sat, 11 Dec
2004 19:12:46 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
http://gmane.org/
Lines:
77
Message-ID:
<cpfdaq$fp6$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
References:
<F3B2E2DF-4954-11D9-847E-000D933C7276 (AT) sun (DOT) com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Complaints-To:
[email]usenet (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org[/email]
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host:
veri364-isdn-a027.otenet.gr
User-Agent:
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103)
X-Accept-Language:
en-us, en
In-Reply-To:
<F3B2E2DF-4954-11D9-847E-000D933C7276 (AT) sun (DOT) com>
Sender:
news <news (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
[/CENSOR_MESSAGE]
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
Noel wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:02:20 +0200, Ilias Lazaridis
[email]ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com[/email]> wrote:
You have cowardly finalized a critical discussion about "The NetBeans
Open Source Lie" with the method of censorship.
If you don't like the way NetBeans has been opensourced, you always
have the option of using something else. Your constant bleating about
it is just tiresome, nothing more.
|
Mr. "Noel [email]no.spam (AT) thank (DOT) you[/email]".
If you don't like the way in which I complain against public
*open-source-lies* and *censorship-attacks* against my person, please
use either mental or technical methods to ignore my writings.
Thank you.
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
Noel wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:48:58 +0200, Ilias Lazaridis
[email]ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com[/email]> wrote:
If you don't like the way in which I complain against public
*open-source-lies* and *censorship-attacks* against my person, please
use either mental or technical methods to ignore my writings.
Your claims that anyone has lied are spurious and possibly libelous.
|
I would not be surprised, if this fictive-extraordinary company uses
some of its lawyers.
This would be the next logical step after they see that censorship do
not help.
| Quote: | If you had more than an ounce of common sense, a quick look at the
NetBeans.org site would have put you right on the matter, and you
would never have had to go throught he pain of 'evaluating' NetBeans
and then discovering that the whole shooting match is not free, as per
your requirements. As I said, if you don't like it, find something
else that meets your requirements.
|
I've commented on this in the other thread.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/browse_frm/thread/452ff4de33491a34/633f0a55e520ef24
[Remember, Mr. "Noel [email]no.spam (AT) thank (DOT) you[/email]", this thread here is about
censorship]
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
Noel wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:43:17 +0200, Ilias Lazaridis
[email]ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com[/email]> wrote:
Your claims that anyone has lied are spurious and possibly libelous.
I would not be surprised, if this fictive-extraordinary company uses
some of its lawyers.
This would be the next logical step after they see that censorship do
not help.
If your complaints are libelous, then yes, it would be the next
logical complaint.
|
Anyone [including Sun Microsystems Lawyers] can evaluate the validity of
my complaints.
That's why I've publicized them within usenet.
| Quote: | If you had more than an ounce of common sense, a quick look at the
NetBeans.org site would have put you right on the matter, and you
would never have had to go throught he pain of 'evaluating' NetBeans
and then discovering that the whole shooting match is not free, as per
your requirements. As I said, if you don't like it, find something
else that meets your requirements.
I've commented on this in the other thread.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/browse_frm/thread/452ff4de33491a34/633f0a55e520ef24
[Remember, Mr. "Noel [email]no.spam (AT) thank (DOT) you[/email]", this thread here is about
censorship]
So called 'censorship' that resulted from your attempts to ruin the
netbeans groups with your constant bitching about netbeans not being
true open source.
|
Anyone can evaluate the validity of the term "Censorship".
That's why I've publicized the returned messages within usenet.
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
To my surprise, the following message was not censored:
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=875384&listName=nbusers
Possibly this was due to an technical failure:
this was a "delivery failure" notification that I got after sending the
message:
-
-
-
- Deze ontvangers van uw bericht zijn door de e-mailserver verwerkt:
[email]e_one (AT) orange (DOT) nl[/email]; Mislukt; 5.2.2 (postbus is vol)
Reporting-MTA: dns; cpservice.dt.orangenet.dk
Received-from-MTA: dns; dtservice.dt.orangenet.dk (212.97.205.215)
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:26:33 +0100
Final-Recipient: rfc822; [email]e_one (AT) orange (DOT) nl[/email]
Action: Failed
Status: 5.2.2 (mailbox full)
Subject:
[nbusers] Re: JAXP & other licenses
From:
Ilias Lazaridis <ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:30:36 +0200
To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Return-Path:
<ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Received:
from dtservice.dt.orangenet.dk (212.97.205.215) by
cpservice.dt.orangenet.dk (6.7.018) id 413484EE000E1738 for
[email]e_one (AT) orange (DOT) nl[/email]; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:26:33 +0100
Received:
from mx15.bcrtfl01.us.mxservers.net (131.103.218.69) by
mail15a.boca15-verio.com (RS ver 1.0.95vs) with SMTP id 4-0685799864 for
<i-dev (AT) i-ware (DOT) net>; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:24:24 -0500 (EST)
Received:
from s001.sfo.collab.net [64.125.133.201] (HELO netbeans.org) by
mx15.bcrtfl01.us.mxservers.net (mxl_mta-1.3.8-10p4) with SMTP id
fec10c14.1264.164.mx15.bcrtfl01.us.mxservers.net; Wed, 15 Dec 2004
06:15:59 -0500 (EST)
Received:
(qmail 4829 invoked by uid 5302); 15 Dec 2004 11:24:09 -0000
Mailing-List:
contact [email]nbusers-help (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]; run by ezmlm
Precedence:
bulk
X-No-Archive:
yes
list-help:
<mailto:nbusers-help (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>
list-unsubscribe:
<mailto:nbusers-unsubscribe (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>
list-post:
<mailto:nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>
Reply-To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Delivered-To:
mailing list [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Delivered-To:
moderator for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Received:
(qmail 29353 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 10:31:02 -0000
X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
http://gmane.org/
Lines:
18
Message-ID:
<cpp3oc$1ph$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
References:
<cp4nkr$mb2$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org> <1102498817.10144.96.camel@NF>
<cp6u4f$agi$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org> <1102520207.6678.46.camel@NF>
<cp7f44$4pd$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Complaints-To:
[email]usenet (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org[/email]
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host:
veri364-isdn-a016.otenet.gr
User-Agent:
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103)
X-Accept-Language:
en-us, en
In-Reply-To:
<cp7f44$4pd$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
Sender:
news <news (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
X-Spam:
[F=0.0017793594; heur=0.500(-26400); stat=0.010;
spamtraq-heur=0.150(2004121410)]
X-MAIL-FROM:
<nbusers-return-49032-i-dev=i-ware.net (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>
X-SOURCE-IP:
[64.125.133.201]
X-Loop-Detect:
1
Tim Boudreau wrote:
| Quote: | Re the JAXP license, I suspect it's just there because at some point
|
[...]
for the intrested readers, followups to this and other messages:
[NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]]
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/browse_frm/thread/93b90d984c64ae76/6ae81d9ae5fac267
and the further netbeans evaluation threads :
[NETBEANS] [EVALUATION] - E12 - The NetBeans Open Source Lie
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/browse_frm/thread/452ff4de33491a34/633f0a55e520ef24
...
--
http://lazaridis.com
-
-
-
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ilias Lazaridis
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: Re: [NETBEANS] [CENSORSHIP] [Fwd: Returned post for nbusers@ |
|
|
I've posted a reply to my own thread, to point out the relevant parts
and to provide the promised final thread.
What follows?
The new Art of Censorship.
"I'm sorry, the list moderators for the nbusers list
have failed to act on your post."
of course they have failed.
They are weak.
And incapable.
-
[the google link within the thread is broken, working link provided here]
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/d083536ebf340a76
-
[/CENSORED_MESSAGE]
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Can *you* [yes, you] forward something like this to Sun's CTO:
*MESSAGE_TO_MR_GREG_PAPADOPOULOS*
"
[...] |
| Quote: | I'm not sure about him - but he asks to point you to this usenet
message, you would understand:
Michael Leonidas Dertouzos / The Falling Rain [comp.lang.lisp] Re:
You want braces? I'll give you braces...
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D7B89D8.8050901%40pontos.net
"
After that, he would most possibly review this thread here and of
course:
|
"Mentor: The late Michael Dertouzos, Director of the Laboratory for
Computer Science at MIT and author of The Unfinished Revolution. "He
taught me that you'd better have an emotional connection to technology
-- it has to feed your soul as well as your intellect."
source: http://www.sun.com/presents/minds/2004-0323/
"...it has to feed your soul as well as your intellect".
[...]
| Quote: | Only _efficient_ open-source can win the battle.
I've trained myself since years for this.
Now I'm ready for it.
-
I'll post an evaluation Summary in the next [and most possibly last]
thread.
|
[EVALUATION] - E10 - Summary: NetBeans is NOT open source, Sun is...
http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=867428&listName=nbusers
[/CENSORED_MESSAGE]
-
-
-
[CENSOR_MESSAGE]
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email] mailing list.
I'm sorry, the list moderators for the nbusers list
have failed to act on your post. Thus, I'm returning it to you.
If you feel that this is in error, please repost the message
or contact a list moderator directly.
--- Enclosed, please find the message you sent.
Subject:
Re: [EVALUATION] - E09 - Sun Microsystems Contrarian Minds, CTO, Radical
Simplification
From:
Ilias Lazaridis <ilias (AT) lazaridis (DOT) com>
Date:
Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:27:04 +0200
To:
[email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Return-Path:
<gcjinu-nbusers (AT) gmane (DOT) org>
Delivered-To:
moderator for [email]nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org[/email]
Received:
(qmail 8707 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 03:27:11 -0000
Received:
from asmx1.sfo.collab.net (64.125.133.81) by s001.sfo.collab.net with
SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 03:27:11 -0000
Received:
from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by
asmx1.sfo.collab.net (8.12.8/8.12. with ESMTP id iBN3RAs0019596 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:27:11 -0800
Received:
from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id
1ChJd7-0005dj-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:27:09 +0100
Received:
from veri364-isdn-a006.otenet.gr ([212.205.230.6]) by main.gmane.org
with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for
<nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:27:09 +0100
Received:
from ilias by veri364-isdn-a006.otenet.gr with local (Gmexim 0.1
(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for <nbusers (AT) netbeans (DOT) org>; Thu, 23 Dec
2004 04:27:09 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
http://gmane.org/
Lines:
46
Message-ID:
<cqddu8$8lt$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
References:
<coh3ns$4ec$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Complaints-To:
[email]usenet (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org[/email]
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host:
veri364-isdn-a006.otenet.gr
User-Agent:
Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206)
X-Accept-Language:
en-us, en
In-Reply-To:
<coh3ns$4ec$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
Sender:
news <news (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org>
[/CENSOR_MESSAGE]
..
--
http://lazaridis.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
