AppletTalk.com Java discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Windows Vista. Ponderring....          AppletTalk.com Forum Index -> Java: Support and criticism View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Trying to get a jump start on any issues. Has anyone thought through if there will be any specific problems to overcome with any java implementation (mustang or not) on the new windows operating system? 1. Specifically, Vista seems to be attempting to truly solve the dpi/font problem, that was never properly implemented in the first place, largely for backward compatible reasons. Is this in any way going to be something that PC implementations of java/JVM will bump into? 2. The new user interface is supposed to be a huge improvement. Here is a screen shot of netbeans running swing on mustang: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/images/NB42onVista.PNG Does anyone know of any particular problem this may or maynot cause? Thanks, Thomas -- It's time for everyone to just step back, take a deep breath, relax, and stop throwing hissy fits over crossposting. Back to top Andrew Thompson Guest Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Thomas G. Marshall wrote: Quote: 2. The new user interface is supposed to be a huge improvement. According to who? Quote: ...Here is a screen shot of netbeans running swing on mustang: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/images/NB42onVista.PNG Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF can't they spend their time dereasing the memory footprint, ar making it faster than syrup. And IMO, the transparent borders are odd, ugly and useless, while the rest of the PLAF is ordinary and simple (I.E. 'OK', but nothing special). -- Andrew Thompson physci, javasaver, 1point1c, lensescapes - athompson.info/andrew Currently accepting short and long term contracts - on Earth. Back to top Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Andrew Thompson said something like: Quote: Thomas G. Marshall wrote: 2. The new user interface is supposed to be a huge improvement. According to who? Microsoft. ;) Quote: ...Here is a screen shot of netbeans running swing on mustang: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/images/NB42onVista.PNG Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF ....[yada]... Yeah, my posting of the mustang/netbeans/vista combination was just to show an example. My response to it was a little like yours: "eh." -- "Realtor" and "realty" are pronounced "reel'-tor" and "reel'-tee", *not* "reel'-a-tor" and "reel'-i-tee" !!!! If you pronounce them with the extra syllable, you will sound like a complete idiot. Back to top Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Thomas G. Marshall said something like: Quote: Trying to get a jump start on any issues. wow, don't everybody talk at once. some days.... ;) ....[rip]... -- "It's easier to be terrified by an enemy you admire." -Thufir Hawat, Mentat and Master of Assassins to House Atreides Back to top Oliver Wong Guest Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... "Andrew Thompson" <seemysites (AT) www (DOT) invalid> wrote Quote: Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF can't they spend their time dereasing the memory footprint, ar making it faster than syrup. I haven't been keeping up with the rumors flying around, but from what I hear, the new graphics engine will leverage the 3D accelerators on your videocard to improve responsiveness. The average card is just so damn powerful, that once they've committed to using 3D acceleration, they get a lot of things (like translucency, anti aliasing, shadows, etc.) for "free". - Oliver Back to top Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Oliver Wong said something like: Quote: "Andrew Thompson" <seemysites (AT) www (DOT) invalid> wrote in message news:a19gf.22868$Hj2.634 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au... Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF can't they spend their time dereasing the memory footprint, ar making it faster than syrup. I haven't been keeping up with the rumors flying around, but from what I hear, the new graphics engine will leverage the 3D accelerators on your videocard to improve responsiveness. The average card is just so damn powerful, that once they've committed to using 3D acceleration, they get a lot of things (like translucency, anti aliasing, shadows, etc.) for "free". Not sure about why that's new. They are supposed to already have full 3D acceleration at their disposal if they wanted. I know that they've been experimenting with a 3D windows for years. "Farenheight" I think they call it. But they haven't yet masterred a sensible user interface. Not like all of this hasn't been thought through for over 20+ years already. Back to top Oliver Wong Guest Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... "Thomas G. Marshall" <tgm2tothe10thpower (AT) replacetextwithnumber (DOT) hotmail.com> wrote in message news:uEHgf.5052$BU2.3433 (AT) trndny01 (DOT) .. Quote: Oliver Wong said something like: "Andrew Thompson" <seemysites (AT) www (DOT) invalid> wrote in message news:a19gf.22868$Hj2.634 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au... Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF can't they spend their time dereasing the memory footprint, ar making it faster than syrup. I haven't been keeping up with the rumors flying around, but from what I hear, the new graphics engine will leverage the 3D accelerators on your videocard to improve responsiveness. The average card is just so damn powerful, that once they've committed to using 3D acceleration, they get a lot of things (like translucency, anti aliasing, shadows, etc.) for "free". Not sure about why that's new. They are supposed to already have full 3D acceleration at their disposal if they wanted. I know that they've been experimenting with a 3D windows for years. "Farenheight" I think they call it. But they haven't yet masterred a sensible user interface. Not like all of this hasn't been thought through for over 20+ years already. My understanding is that a lot of the visual effects in XP (e.g. soft shadows, alpha blending, etc.) are currently implemented in software, and in Vista, it'll be done in hardware. - Oliver Back to top Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Oliver Wong said something like: Quote: "Thomas G. Marshall" [email]tgm2tothe10thpower (AT) replacetextwithnumber (DOT) hotmail.com[/email] wrote Oliver Wong said something like: "Andrew Thompson" <seemysites (AT) www (DOT) invalid> wrote in message news:a19gf.22868$Hj2.634 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au... Transparent borders (rolls eyes) WTF can't they spend their time dereasing the memory footprint, ar making it faster than syrup. I haven't been keeping up with the rumors flying around, but from what I hear, the new graphics engine will leverage the 3D accelerators on your videocard to improve responsiveness. The average card is just so damn powerful, that once they've committed to using 3D acceleration, they get a lot of things (like translucency, anti aliasing, shadows, etc.) for "free". Not sure about why that's new. They are supposed to already have full 3D acceleration at their disposal if they wanted. I know that they've been experimenting with a 3D windows for years. "Farenheight" I think they call it. But they haven't yet masterred a sensible user interface. Not like all of this hasn't been thought through for over 20+ years already. My understanding is that a lot of the visual effects in XP (e.g. soft shadows, alpha blending, etc.) are currently implemented in software, and in Vista, it'll be done in hardware. That's just what confuses me. The way the software is layered, it already uses 3D hardware if it happens to be there, and software if it isn't. I wonder what they're trying to say in this. Do you have a link? -- With knowledge comes sorrow. Back to top Oliver Wong Guest Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... "Thomas G. Marshall" <tgm2tothe10thpower (AT) replacetextwithnumber (DOT) hotmail.com> wrote in message >> My understanding is that a lot of the visual effects in XP (e.g. soft Quote: shadows, alpha blending, etc.) are currently implemented in software, and in Vista, it'll be done in hardware. That's just what confuses me. The way the software is layered, it already uses 3D hardware if it happens to be there, and software if it isn't. I wonder what they're trying to say in this. Do you have a link? http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experience/ According to this page, the software will still "try to use hardware and otherwise fall back on software", but what I did notice that is new is that the rendering engine is apparently now vector based instead of pixel based, implying the potential for infinite resolution: <quote> For example, Windows Presentation Foundation's vector-based rendering engine enables applications to scale to take advantage of high-dpi monitors without requiring extra work on the part of the developer or user. Similarly, when Windows Presentation Foundation detects a video card that supports hardware acceleration, it takes advantage of it.</quote> Also, according to Wikipedia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Graphics_hardware_requirements .... you can switch between the classic looks ("Classic (win2000)" and "To Go (winxp)"), and the new looks ("Aero Express" and "Aero Glass"), but apparently the "high quality new look" (Aero Glass) requires 3D acceleration, as opposed to the other looks which can fall back on software. Another Wikipage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Presentation_Foundation Apparently, in Vista, DirectX will be "always on", as opposed to only on during games, as the new GUI is built on top of DirectX. - Oliver Back to top Thomas G. Marshall Guest Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Oliver Wong said something like: ....[rip]... Quote: Apparently, in Vista, DirectX will be "always on", as opposed to only on during games, as the new GUI is built on top of DirectX. Ok thanks. Also, specifically here, I was surprised: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D This flies in the face of what I previously understood to be true (which apparently isn't). It is /not/ historically the case that a library call to something 3D that is not supported in hardware is simply done in software, like I thought. I think that I may be confusing ms's 2D library layers with Direct3D/Direct3D10. Thanks. In any case, my pondering still stands: Is there anything that java will have to adapt to here? -- Enough is enough. It is /not/ a requirement that someone must google relentlessly for an answer before posting in usenet. Newsgroups are for discussions. Discussions do /not/ necessitate prior research. If you are bothered by someone asking a question without taking time to look something up, simply do not respond. Back to top Steve Horsley Guest Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... Thomas G. Marshall wrote: Quote: Trying to get a jump start on any issues. 2. The new user interface is supposed to be a huge improvement. Here is a screen shot of netbeans running swing on mustang: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/images/NB42onVista.PNG Yuk! The fonts are as naff as ever, aren't they? Steve Back to top Roedy Green Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Windows Vista. Ponderring.... On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:58:37 +0000, Steve Horsley <steve.horsley (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : Quote: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/images/NB42onVista.PNG Yuk! The fonts are as naff as ever, aren't they? The hand-typed simulation is getting better. Look at the magazine ads. That's what's cool. -- Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching. 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