AppletTalk.com Java discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  A fundamental question about bytecode and nativecode          AppletTalk.com Forum Index -> Java Language Programming View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message cat_dog_ass Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: A fundamental question about bytecode and nativecode At the server end, why should Sun force us to keep our codes in bytecode (class) format? Why not allow us the translate code into native format so that it servers the clients a lot quicker? I'm sure this is technically possible. Then what the allure of bytecode. People don't change their server end operating systems often. Then the OS neutrality of bytecode should hardly be of any relevance today. Back to top Andrew Thompson Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: A fundamental question about bytecode and nativecode cat_dog_ass wrote: Quote: At the server end, why should Sun force us to keep our codes in bytecode (class) format? Why not allow us the translate code into native format so that it servers the clients a lot quicker? Bytecodes are translated to native format on loading. Since server classes are only loaded infrequently, and thereafter kept in memory, it is not a big issue. Servers load slow, but run quick. -- Andrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ Message posted via JavaKB.com http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200705/1 Back to top Andrew Thompson Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: A fundamental question about bytecode and nativecode Lew wrote: .. Quote: How is load time even a consideration? You've hit upon one of my 'pet beefs'. Java is not especially suited to little, fast 'command line' based tools. Who would want to load a JVM (even a minimal or core one) just to do a directory listing, or delete a file? OTOH - it is best to start *learning* Java from the command line. So when the developer sees a 'hello world' application take 0.3 seconds it seems (because it is) 'slow', and gives the vague impression (to people who do not yet understand the strengths of the way Sun does it) that 'Java is slow'. The same applies (in some ways) to applets, with the added complication that some VM/browser combos. will cause a web page to 'freeze' while waiting for both the bytecodess (and possibly media) to download, and the JVM to load and complete 'init()'! The places where Java is best and fastest, the server and long running desktop applications, are usually not 'seen' by end users and beginning developers. -- Andrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ Message posted via JavaKB.com http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200705/1 Back to top blmblm@myrealbox.com Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: A fundamental question about bytecode and nativecode In article <Mkn1i.1860$7l6.1008@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, Mark Thornton <mark.p.thornton@ntl-spam-world.com> wrote: Quote: blmblm (AT) myrealbox (DOT) com wrote: In article <u6GdnUQqn_hMUdzbnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com>, Lew <lew (AT) nospam (DOT) lewscanon.com> wrote: [ snip ] Hey, isn't the object code in a compiled executable an intermediate format, too? Doesn't it get translated to "native format" also? How so? As I understand it, object code is "machine language" -- binary data that can be directly executed by the processor. What am I not getting here? [ snip ] Most modern processors perform yet another translation stage from say x86 code into some internal form which is actually executed. Aha. How embarrassing that I was somehow blissfully unaware of this .... Well, as they say in another newsgroup I follow: You learn stuff here. Thanks. -- B. L. Massingill ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor. 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