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Arne Vajhøj
Guest
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Philipp Taprogge wrote:
| Quote: | Thus spake Arne Vajhøj on 05/19/2007 09:52 PM:
Yes.
It is open source.
opensource != free for all...
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open source == free for all
| Quote: | Please keep in mind that many open source projects, namely those released
under terms of the GPL, can _not_ be freely used in commercial products.
|
It most certainly can.
Indeed RMS and FSF would encourage it.
But I know what you mean - code "linked" to GPL code becomes
automatically covered by GPL and that is unacceptable for almost
all commercial products.
But the GPL code is available for commercial usage.
If you check the definition for open source you will find:
"6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor
The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a
specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program
from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research."
Link: http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd
Arne |
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Tom Hawtin
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Arne Vajhøj wrote:
| Quote: | Arne Vajhøj wrote:
Tom Hawtin wrote:
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
But I know what you mean - code "linked" to GPL code becomes
automatically covered by GPL and that is unacceptable for almost
all commercial products.
Not true, AFAIK. IANAL. If you break the terms of the GPL, you just
break the terms of the GPL. You get flamed of slashdot lots. That may
or may not be a big deal to you. You may then have further legal
proceedings against you. However, AFAIK, code linked to GPL and
published remains your code. I am not a lawyer.
It remains your code, but you have implicit released
it under GPL.
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL
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"If a library is released under the GPL (not the LGPL), does that mean
that any program which uses it has to be under the GPL?
"Yes, because the program as it is actually run includes the library."
Well, the GPL license says it has to be released under GPL, but you can
break the GPL license.
| Quote: | I don't think the "piracy license" (this program contains
code distributed in violation of the GPL license, so the
rules of the GPL license does not apply) will work very well.
|
You can still prosecute other people for infringing your copyright if
you yourself infringe copyright. I don't think there is any problem with
that at all. IANAL.
Tom Hawtin |
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Arne Vajhøj
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Arne Vajhøj wrote:
| Quote: | Tom Hawtin wrote:
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
But I know what you mean - code "linked" to GPL code becomes
automatically covered by GPL and that is unacceptable for almost
all commercial products.
Not true, AFAIK. IANAL. If you break the terms of the GPL, you just
break the terms of the GPL. You get flamed of slashdot lots. That may
or may not be a big deal to you. You may then have further legal
proceedings against you. However, AFAIK, code linked to GPL and
published remains your code. I am not a lawyer.
It remains your code, but you have implicit released
it under GPL.
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL
|
I don't think the "piracy license" (this program contains
code distributed in violation of the GPL license, so the
rules of the GPL license does not apply) will work very well.
Arne |
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Tom Hawtin
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Arne Vajhøj wrote:
| Quote: |
But I know what you mean - code "linked" to GPL code becomes
automatically covered by GPL and that is unacceptable for almost
all commercial products.
|
Not true, AFAIK. IANAL. If you break the terms of the GPL, you just
break the terms of the GPL. You get flamed of slashdot lots. That may or
may not be a big deal to you. You may then have further legal
proceedings against you. However, AFAIK, code linked to GPL and
published remains your code. I am not a lawyer.
Tom Hawtin |
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~kurt
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Philipp Taprogge <Philipp.Taprogge (AT) gmx (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please keep in mind that many open source projects, namely those released
under terms of the GPL, can _not_ be freely used in commercial products.
|
This is simply not true. If you intend to use a GPL'ed library, and link to
it, then yes, you must GPL your code to comply with the license. It can still
be freely used in commercial products. This is why most libraries use
the LGPL which does not require this.
| Quote: | Since JBoss is released under LGPL terms, this is not an issue here, though.
|
I have never used JBoss - but, as an application server, is it used as
a library that links to your code? I doubt it. Therefore, it would not
matter if it was released under LGPL or GPL. You could use it commercially
for whatever purpose you want.
- Kurt |
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~kurt
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Tom Hawtin <usenet (AT) tackline (DOT) plus.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Not true, AFAIK. IANAL. If you break the terms of the GPL, you just
break the terms of the GPL. You get flamed of slashdot lots. That may or
may not be a big deal to you. You may then have further legal
proceedings against you. However, AFAIK, code linked to GPL and
published remains your code. I am not a lawyer.
|
Nvidia has been linking to the Linux kernel (GPL'ed) with closed source
code for ages now. I think the problem with enforcing such a thing is,
if given the choice between not supplying the module, or open sourcing
their code, they would probably choose to just not open source their
code.
- Kurt |
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Arne Vajhøj
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Tom Hawtin wrote:
| Quote: | Arne Vajhøj wrote:
But I know what you mean - code "linked" to GPL code becomes
automatically covered by GPL and that is unacceptable for almost
all commercial products.
Not true, AFAIK. IANAL. If you break the terms of the GPL, you just
break the terms of the GPL. You get flamed of slashdot lots. That may or
may not be a big deal to you. You may then have further legal
proceedings against you. However, AFAIK, code linked to GPL and
published remains your code. I am not a lawyer.
|
It remains your code, but you have implicit released
it under GPL.
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL
Arne |
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Philipp Taprogge
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Hi!
Thus spake Mark Thornton on 05/20/2007 11:02 PM:
| Quote: | The MySQL JDBC driver is GPL licensed NOT LGPL, so you can't base a non
GPL commercial product on using that driver. On the other hand end users
can use it with a non GPL product.
|
You are right, of course. It was the MM MySQL driver that was/is LGPL.
Regards,
Phil |
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Philipp Taprogge
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Re: JBoss |
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Hi!
Thus spake ~kurt on 05/20/2007 08:52 PM:
| Quote: | Philipp Taprogge <Philipp.Taprogge (AT) gmx (DOT) net> wrote:
What you could /not/ do, is modify the JBoss itself, adding custem components
and then selling this modified JBoss as your own, closed source appserver.
I never said you could. I believe we are using the word "use" differently.
When I say use, I'm not talking about incorporating it into my own code.
|
I see you don't. But that's just the problem with this license issue. It all
depends on what you mean by "use" and the OPs initial question did not make
that clear.
Regards,
Phil |
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Roedy Green
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
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To: bob smith
From: Roedy Green <see_website (AT) mindprod (DOT) com.invalid>
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
<bob (AT) coolfone (DOT) comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
| Quote: | Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics? Or has it finally
been replaced by something better? |
Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It does not
integrate. So Swing is it for now.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com A new scientific truth
does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light,
but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up
that is familiar with it.
~ Max Planck 1858-04-23 1947-10-04
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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Jeff Higgins
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
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To: Roedy Green
From: Jeff Higgins <jeff (AT) invalid (DOT) invalid>
On 08/14/2012 08:47 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
bob (AT) coolfone (DOT) comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics? Or has it
finally been replaced by something better?
Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
I've been spending some time exploring JavaFX. Will you please expand on your |
comment that [JavaFX] does not integrate?
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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Roedy Green
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
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To: bob smith
From: "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@1:261/38.remove-73m-this>
To: bob smith
From: "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@1:261/38.remove-z1z-this>
To: bob smith
From: Roedy Green <see_website (AT) mindprod (DOT) com.invalid>
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
<bob (AT) coolfone (DOT) comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
| Quote: | Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics? Or has it finally
been replaced by something better? |
Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It does not
integrate. So Swing is it for now.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com A new scientific truth
does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but
rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that
is familiar with it.
~ Max Planck 1858-04-23 1947-10-04
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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Jeff Higgins
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
|
|
To: Roedy Green
From: "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-73m-this>
To: Roedy Green
From: "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-z1z-this>
To: Roedy Green
From: Jeff Higgins <jeff (AT) invalid (DOT) invalid>
On 08/14/2012 08:47 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
bob (AT) coolfone (DOT) comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics? Or has it
finally been replaced by something better?
Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
I've been spending some time exploring JavaFX. Will you please expand on your |
comment that [JavaFX] does not integrate?
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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Qu0ll
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
|
|
To: Roedy Green
From: "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
"Roedy Green" wrote in message
news:5csl28pian0391sl4iehdl47hp289i5ai7 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
| Quote: | Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
|
Doesn't integrate??? With what exactly? JavaFX is just another Java API, is
now included as part of the JDK (as of 7 Update 6), interoperates seamlessly
with Swing, works with all standard Java SE packages, works well with other
JVM-based languages and has some very, very impressive features. If you want to
develop new GUI apps with Java then JavaFX is a "no brainer" as they say in the
states.
Swing will hang around for a long time yet but is not being actively developed
by Oracle anymore and good luck trying to get any bugs in it fixed. They are
pouring an enormous amount of resources into JavaFX and rightly so - it's great
technology.
IMHO you'd be nuts to start a new project with Swing instead of FX.
--
And loving it,
-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour (AT) gmail (DOT) com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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Jeff Higgins
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Swing |
|
|
To: Roedy Green
From: "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-s96-this>
To: Roedy Green
From: "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-73m-this>
To: Roedy Green
From: "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-z1z-this>
To: Roedy Green
From: Jeff Higgins <jeff (AT) invalid (DOT) invalid>
On 08/14/2012 08:47 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
bob (AT) coolfone (DOT) comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics? Or has it
finally been replaced by something better?
Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
I've been spending some time exploring JavaFX. Will you please expand on your |
comment that [JavaFX] does not integrate?
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
-+- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
+ Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
-+- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24
--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/3
--- Synchronet 3.16a-Win32 NewsLink 1.98
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24 |
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